Aftermarket parts,cam, etc.

[WS6]

So I inherited this ticking lifter over #2. My plan was to ride it out through the summer as it just ticks below 1700.
But it's really start to bug me and I think I may open up the top and replace all the lifters.
My first question is do I need to replace the cam for good measure? Springs too? Pushrods?

If so what cam should I buy and what lifters and what springs etc., be specific in manufacturer and part numbers if you can.
I ask here because the TTA heads are different and I don't know if they require TTA specific replacement parts.

Thanks fellas.

 

[Duratys]

I have always been told to change the cam when changing lifters. If you change the lifters you have to swap the pushrods as well.

 

[1 QUIK6]

This is God/Ala/Karma's way of tell you it's time for a full roller setup, Lol!

To be serious though flat tappet cams really aren't that expensive + you'll get to change your signature from the "unknown mods" to something that you do know. Unfortunately I still don't have a real good suggestion for you. I have a new cam on order but I don't even know what it is!?! My engine builder asked me how high I want to rev before shifting and ordered an Erson custom ground cam that he felt was appropriate. I thought I should be asking more questions but he know A LOT more about this stuff than I do.

With my newly built engine the builder said he'd shift at 7000rpm. With stong internals it would have no problems. Sounded a little scary to me so I had the cam setup for 6200. I told him low torque was a much higher priority for me than the high RPM stuff so it'll be interesting to see what he comes up with. I can let you know when I figure out what I've got but that certainly may not be the same setup you'd want in your car. With stock internals I'd never rev mine over 5000rpm.

Good luck on whatever you pick out! I'd highly recommend an oil additive from Kirban Perfomance to keep the new flat tappet cam from getting wiped out. It was recommended to me by somebody very knowledgeable in the turbo buick world and I think it was a really good suggestion.

Eric

 

[WS6]

This is God/Ala/Karma's way of tell you it's time for a full roller setup, Lol!


Eric

Again with the God's way thing? This TTA ownership is a religion isn't it!

I've been chatting with a couple dudes at TB about how to approach this with either a quick lifter change or complete valve train change. Jury's still out. And I'd like to know what you guys think too.

BTW, there is a fuel cut-off rev limiter at 6200, and I've reached it a couple times while tuning in 3rd gear,by accident mind you.


...

 

[V6TA-MI]

Have you pulled the rocker cover? I have had the rocker and pivot wear to the point of noise, having to replace them on a late '70's Olds. I have also had problems with aftermarket lifters not being consistent on pump up height (on '86 GN). The recomendation was to go to GM lifters. I traded that car off before solving the problem. FWIW

 

[WS6]

Have you pulled the rocker cover?

Yes, actually twice, first was to see if it just needed torqued to lash. That wasn't it but the second time I took the suspect rocker,pivot and pushrod out. Checked them out for damage and non was found. So back in, torque to lash and the problem went away...till the next time it ran:furious:.

I just think it is a leaky lifter like you suggest and is not pumping up to spec height until oil pressure and RPM are up.

My BIG question is...can I just throw 12 new lifters in and not hurt the existing cam.


...

 

[Quiky One]

Again with the God's way thing? This TTA ownership is a religion isn't it!

I've been chatting with a couple dudes at TB about how to approach this with either a quick lifter change or complete valve train change. Jury's still out. And I'd like to know what you guys think too.

BTW, there is a fuel cut-off rev limiter at 6200, and I've reached it a couple times while tuning in 3rd gear,by accident mind you.


...

Woah back this up. You hit the revlimiter with alky??? If you truly did you would have blown the heads or worse...

Think about it like this.

At WOT you have fuel plus alky and 20 PSI (round figure) running 800 o2's.

At WOT hitting the rev limiter you have alky, no fuel, 20 psi, and 300 o2's???

See what I'm saying? I am almost positive Erics alky chips do not have a rev limiter. I know mine doesnt because I specified it so. A friend of mine blew both of his HG's in Noble when he hit the rev limiter at 25 PSI but the alky was still spraying.

Jason

 

[V6TA-MI]

My BIG question is...can I just throw 12 new lifters in and not hurt the existing cam.


...

You may be able to if you use the correct assembly lube. I would talk to Comp Cams, maybe tell them you'll buy their lifters. GM used to have a good assembly lube but I think they dropped it for emitions reasons. This is a big topic in "old Muscle car" circles, since almost all oil now is not formulated for flat tappet cams.

HTH

 

[WS6]

Woah back this up. You hit the revlimiter with alky??? If you truly did you would have blown the heads or worse...

Think about it like this.

At WOT you have fuel plus alky and 20 PSI (round figure) running 800 o2's.

At WOT hitting the rev limiter you have alky, no fuel, 20 psi, and 300 o2's???

See what I'm saying? I am almost positive Erics alky chips do not have a rev limiter. I know mine doesnt because I specified it so. A friend of mine blew both of his HG's in Noble when he hit the rev limiter at 25 PSI but the alky was still spraying.

Jason

I'll PM you Eric's e-mail to me where he tells me about the rev limiter as I don't have his permission to post it.

But, yes, I see what your saying and there is a couple of other things to consider. One it may have not hit the rev limiter, but I can't testify to that because I was looking at the road not the tach. But my car routinely hits's 5500+ between shifts under WOT.
Second, I'm still around 16PSI full boost till I work out the tune better.
Third it may have not been the rev limiter at all, just my interpetation of what happened and when.

Here's the how and why; Julio told me to to tune the car in third gear and from 40-80MPH. So, while I was doing a few of those runs and a couple times I decided to go up to 100MPH and see what if any KR I'd see and how the O2's were shaking out. Both times I forgot to shift it up into 4th thereby over revving the engine. What happened was the car was screaming and it had what I can only describe as a rev limiter cut out and the moment I shifted up into 4th all was good. Car pulled normal, no shutter,no compressor surge, just an ignition break up. I saw no KR and the O2' stored at 92 MPH were still 800's.

So, what do you think?

 

[Quiky One]

I'll PM you Eric's e-mail to me where he tells me about the rev limiter as I don't have his permission to post it.

But, yes, I see what your saying and there is a couple of other things to consider. One it may have not hit the rev limiter, but I can't testify to that because I was looking at the road not the tach. But my car routinely hits's 5500+ between shifts under WOT.
Second, I'm still around 16PSI full boost till I work out the tune better.
Third it may have not been the rev limiter at all, just my interpetation of what happened and when.

Here's the how and why; Julio told me to to tune the car in third gear and from 40-80MPH. So, while I was doing a few of those runs and a couple times I decided to go up to 100MPH and see what if any KR I'd see and how the O2's were shaking out. Both times I forgot to shift it up into 4th thereby over revving the engine. What happened was the car was screaming and it had what I can only describe as a rev limiter cut out and the moment I shifted up into 4th all was good. Car pulled normal, no shutter,no compressor surge, just an ignition break up. I saw no KR and the O2' stored at 92 MPH were still 800's.

So, what do you think?

I'm at 5700 RPM's at 118 MPH in 3rd with the stock gears and the converter unlocked. I doubt you hit 6200 at 100 MPH without a verrrrrry loose stall and 4:11 gears or something.

What you probably felt was the motor running out of its powerband.

 

[WS6]

What you probably felt was the motor running out of its powerband.

I hope so...

 

[1 QUIK6]

Again with the God's way thing? This TTA ownership is a religion isn't it!

...

I do hope you realize I'm just kidding you. Just think if you listened to me and made upgrades every time the car broke though. You'd be running 10's by now, lol!

Can you please pm me some info about the rev limiter fuel shutoff? I run Eric's chips and I'm planning on spinning my new longblock up to 6,200. Until now I've never revved up over 5,000 rpms so it has never been an issue.

Thanks

Eric