Oil Leaks from the intake???

[gatorlance]

So I was out the other day in the TTA and noticed that I was losing boost (only now goes to about 10psi) until 3rd gear when it will eventually build to the full 16#. I was checking under the hood looking for loose hoses thinking that I have a boost leak somewhere.

Well, I noticed some oil splatter on my underhood cover (glad I don't have a nice one from carmotorsports yet) and I've been searching for where it might be coming from.

Turns out that the hose from the intercooler (connecting to the intake hard pipe) is soaked with oil. Is that normal? Seems that is dripping on to the top of the intercooler and possibly getting to the drive belts as well. Clearly I need to get at the intercooler and clean it (and the intake). Got any thoughts on where that might be coming from? Is it blow-by? I have 2 breathers on the DS valve cover - including the oil cap.

Thanks for your thoughts, guys.

-Lance

 

[WS6]

Do you still have the hose hooked up to the inlet bell of the the turbo that goes to the valve cover? If so it's coming from there. But your intercooler my have a bunch of oil in it. Are the intercooler hoses old? could they be split somewhere and venting boost and oil from the intercooler?


EDIT; may also have a PCV malfunctioning

 

[gatorlance]

Thanks Rich. I'll have to check that. I know it has a new PCV valve, but I'm sure it could be bad. I'll sure have to clean the IC.

Yes, I believe that the IC has the original hoses as well. The hose from the turbo to the IC has a few slits in it and I plan to take it off this weekend to check the inside. I'm reasonably sure that is where the boost leak is coming from. There does not appear to be a lot of room for that hose to move. Any tips on getting it off?

I take it this is an abnormal amount of oil, correct?

 

[WS6]

I take it this is an abnormal amount of oil, correct?

Well Lance? I don't know? I mean I had a small amount in my IC, but maybe it was cleaned out before I got the car. I had the crankcase evacuation hose hooked up to my turbo's inlet bell and there was a modest amount of oil in there too.

Post a bird's eye picture of your engine from the upper plenum forward. I'd like to see what you've got hooked up and where you're venting to.

 

[gatorlance]

Been out sick for a few days so haven't had time to touch this. Here are a few pictures of what I am seeing. Links only since the pic upload does not want to work today:

Tears in the hose from the turbo to the IC:

http://picasaweb.google.com/GatorLance/Troubleshooting#5305671271670320578

I'm reasonably sure that these tears would be substantial under full boost. I haven't gotten the IC out yet (it appears to be a bit of a pain and now I'm searching for jack points), so I don't have that hose off yet to see the inside. The hose is pretty long compared to the space between the turbo and the IC (a good thing I suppose), so I have to get the IC out.

Here are shots of the passenger side valve cover and what I believe is the capped off hose referred to above:

http://picasaweb.google.com/GatorLance/Troubleshooting#5305671274373679170

I also took off the hard pipe from the IC to the TB and both connector hoses are indeed soaked with oil.

Any tips on getting the IC out? Thanks again.

 

[WS6]

Those IC hoses all need replaced(all 3), with new clamps. Your IC looks off to one side as though the brackets are tweaked. Possibly the oil is from when before that inlet bell hose was still connected.

And you really need to be looking for a DS valve cover to replace that passenger one, then add another LS1 breather to it.

The intercooler comes out by taking the plastic shroud off the IC and the IC itself is hung on brackets from either side of IC. It looks difficult but once the plastic scoop/shroud is off it comes right out.

Drive the car up on a couple 2X12 and that'll give you enough clearence to slip a jack under the front crossmember. Lift enough to get a couple jackstands under the front sub frame connectors. And go to work from there.

I made some low buck drive on ramps from 2X12 x 50" I cut them into 20" and 30" sections and screwed them together to form a ramp,one for each side. I mitered each section on one end so it doesn't kick out when trying to drive up on them. Anyway it gives me 3" of clearance and I can get a floor jack just about anywhere from the sub frame forward.

Plus they store away easy when I don't need them.

 

[gatorlance]

Thanks Rich. I really like your idea for the cheap ramps. I have a low profile floor jack, so that helps a lot, but those little simple ramps would be best. They'd probably also be great for doing work on the 91 300ZX I picked up last year :clap:which is stupidly low to the ground.

Yeah, I figured out the IC removal once I had it up on stands. I got the IC off it's mounts and even with the shroud still attached, it moved enough so I could get the hoses off. I agree that it is tweaked and bumped to one side. I'll have to play with that some to get it back in line. That probably does not help the life of the turbo-side hose much.

Are there any particular IC hoses that are recommended above others? I see that Kirban has a set that looks pretty nice. Otherwise, I may check a local hose shop here to see if they have something that will do that looks original.

Can you explain why I would need to change the PS valve cover? Sorry for the newb question, but I'm just not clear on that.

Also, where do you guys get your PCV valves from? The local shops here don't have them (and they want $10 each just for shipping - thanks anyway...) and research suggests using only the AC Delco part. Sounds like I may need to order a few from GM Parts. Also, any suggestions on how to test them?

So I think I also found the leak that is getting on my underhood cover. When I was under the DS side unhooking the IC mounting bolt, there is a bunch of oil or power steering fluid running along what appear to be one of the power steering hoses (havent looked closely enough yet). That looks like it is dripping on the drive belt and being thrown up onto the hood. Gonna hit it with a paper towel to get the fluid color and then trace it back to see where it's coming from.

I guess that leaves 3 items for me to get to:
1. New PCV valve (plus some spares)
2. New IC hoses (plus clamps)
3. Find/fix the fluid leak near the DS IC mount.
(4. Build cheap slick ramps)

Cant wait to get this running right for the spring time. :dance:

Thanks again for the suggestions, Rich.

 

[WS6]

Are there any particular IC hoses that are recommended above others? I see that Kirban has a set that looks pretty nice. Otherwise, I may check a local hose shop here to see if they have something that will do that looks original.

One stop shopping for your hoses and T-bolt clamps will be here http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/ look on the left column for "hard to find DIY products" you'll find hoses and clamps.

Can you explain why I would need to change the PS valve cover? Sorry for the newb question, but I'm just not clear on that.

There is some "boost" that builds in the crankcase under boost, whether it be from a faulty PCV valve or blowby or whatever, it still pressurizes the block. This can manifest as oil in the IC/intake/turbo or rear main/ valve cover/dipstick leaks.
When I bought my car it leaked at the rear main and had some oil in the inlet track and IC. I researched it and copying ratfink's car I added LS1 breathers where the oil fill caps go. Now, my car had already gotten the driver's side valve cover swap before me, but no breather,just a fill cap on each valve cover. Here's a picture of my engine just before I plucked it for the cam change last summer and you can see the LS1 twist in breathers and for extra breathing I added small cone filters on the rubber elbows of the valve covers. I got those from Advance auto or Autozone. When I added all 4 of those breathers my rear main quite leaking and my intake tract is drier than a popcorn fart.
....

...

Also, where do you guys get your PCV valves from? The local shops here don't have them (and they want $10 each just for shipping - thanks anyway...) and research suggests using only the AC Delco part. Sounds like I may need to order a few from GM Parts. Also, any suggestions on how to test them?

I have an old school ATR PCV in there now, but I tried an off the shelf one from autozone and it failed under boost.I put the ATR back in and haven't looked back. I would bite the bullet and buy a correct one from a turbo buick vendor(maybe full throttle too) and call it a day.

So I think I also found the leak that is getting on my underhood cover. When I was under the DS side unhooking the IC mounting bolt, there is a bunch of oil or power steering fluid running along what appear to be one of the power steering hoses (havent looked closely enough yet). That looks like it is dripping on the drive belt and being thrown up onto the hood. Gonna hit it with a paper towel to get the fluid color and then trace it back to see where it's coming from.

PS fluid maybe clear or red, but it sounds like you're right on track with that diagnoses.

Lance what else have you done with the car since you've gotten it? Chip,injector,turbo upgrades?

Rich

 

[gatorlance]

I dabble in wrenching, but big heavy work is beyond my equipment here at home. I have since bought some better stuff to work with: low profile jack, jack stands, a few new tools, so my intent is to do more wrenching when I can find the time. This phase of life is basically: family, work/travel, house, repeat.

I got the car almost a year and a half ago with 22,600 miles on it and now it has about 23,300. I am the 3rd owner. The PO bought it from the original owner who had let it sit for 9 years, so all the seals were toast.

The car came almost completely stock except for the K&N air filter (I still have the original air box) and a Hooker exhaust. When I got it home, it leaked oil like from the back AND the front, so I brought it to a mechanic I trust for two major visits: (1) an engine pull and then 8 months later with a big birthday grin (2) a suspension upgrade. In the first visit to the mechanic, they replaced almost every major seal in the car (rear main, front crank case, some tranny seals, rebuilt the torque converter, AC system seals, etc.).

Since then, I got a replacement spoiler on the first GB from Hawks, retired the original plug wires and have fixed a few minor things that were not working.

I decided that the creaking over bumps and such is not good and though I debated it, I made the 2nd visit to my trusted shop here and had SFCs welded in and a bunch of new suspension components (A-arms, sway bars, torque arm, KYB struts/shocks, new stock height springs). Being basically non-reversable, I know that welded SFCs make the purists cringe, but like I do intend to drive the car around the canyons in Colorado and I figure that creaking cannot be good long-term for these cars if you drive them. I guess if I wanted a garage queen, I would have bought a sub-10k mile car. I did keep all the original suspension components though for posterity's sake.

I've also been amassing a few parts here and there for smaller projects and upgrades (new seats from Hawks, a T-top bar, TurboTweak chip, PowerLogger, spare racetronix fuel pump, a few miscellaneous others).

So from performance standpoint, the car is pretty close to stock - original stock turbo, injectors, factory chip, wategate. I don't have any aspirations to take the car to the track, but I love the 12-year old boy grin it still puts on my face when it hits boost. And every now and then, I get to put some poor guy in his place on the street when they assume it is a standard 3rd gen. So I'd consider that I'm doing tasteful and stock-appearing/reversable mods to the car (except the SFCs of course).

Like I said, can't wait to get the car back to good. But mods are addictive. And I keep thinking I'll change my mind and trying to turn up the boost later on. Somehow, I keep thinking I should get some injectors and an adjustable wastegate for next winter's TTA project. But given that now the TTA is in pretty good shape, aside from the other issues mentioned in this string, I am thinking about other projects.

 

[1 QUIK6]

I was going to start an origional Thread for this but seems it would fit in here pretty well. I need to figure out how to hook everything back up properly on my engine and I don't remember where everything went when it came apart.

To start, I did get the second drivers side valve cover. It is not the TTA origional but rather one off a FWD that has the breather hole on the very end of the VC instead of the top edge.

I see that everybody else has used 4 breathers instead of just the 2 oil fill big ones. Are the small two necessary? I was considering just plugging off the pass side hole, is this a bad idea? Where does the PCV valve fit into all of this? Do I need to cap off a spot at the turbo that used to recirculate this stuff?

I have been so in-depth with the rest of this project I just really feel I should know a lot more about some of this simple stuff.

Only dumb question is one that isn't asked, right?

 

[WS6]

I see that everybody else has used 4 breathers instead of just the 2 oil fill big ones. Are the small two necessary?

No, not necessary, but it's a nice little touch on those now,unused elbows.

I was considering just plugging off the pass side hole, is this a bad idea? Where does the PCV valve fit into all of this? Do I need to cap off a spot at the turbo that used to recirculate this stuff?

I'd plug it off if it were me.

PCV is not part of the valve cover. It connects to the vacuum block on top of the doghouse(upper plenum)

And yes, cap off the nipple on the turbo, if it has one.

=============================

I've also been amassing a few parts here and there for smaller projects and upgrades (new seats from Hawks, a T-top bar, TurboTweak chip, PowerLogger, spare racetronix fuel pump, a few miscellaneous others).

Lance, I can't believe you have all that stuff and haven't put it on???:bash:

"In for a penny,in for a pound" my friend.

Get those injectors,chip and powerlogger installed! You think you're grinning now! wait till it huffs 22 psi. You'll have a grin so permanent that a plastic surgeon won't be able to remove it.:WOOT:

 

[gatorlance]

Well, in my defense, it is winter and haven't had a lot of time - too many projects and too much skiing in Colorado :cool1:.

In any case, I've ordered some more parts (heh heh) to complete this. Here is my plan for the next 1-2 weeks when/after all the parts arrive:
- Clean out the IC
- Adjust IC brackets to straighten out the turbo-to-IC alignment
- Install Kirban intake and polished aluminum MAF pipe
- Install new PCV valve, PCV valve grommet and check valve (Kirban)
- Install new IC hoses (FullThrottleSpeed)

I'm going to do the more fun parts once I pony up to get new injectors and an adjustable wastegate as I don't think installing the TT chip and power logger will make much difference until then.

I plan to wait on the fuel pump until the factory one goes since dropping the tank is such a PITA. Also, I've heard that the filler neck never aligns back up the same after you do that.

 

[WS6]

I hate to tell ya' but that fuel pump is coming out as soon as you go above the factory boost level, it just won't keep up. And maybe even sooner because you'll pop a headgasket when it starts to detonate on todays crappy gas.

Besides, dropping a 3rd gen fuel tank is a right of passage...a badge of honor, if you will......own it!!

 

[gatorlance]

Heh, that figures. Sounds like a good time to get some help at my house for a tank drop party this summer... Spread the pain!

Thanks again, Rich.

 

[RatFink]

Or put in a secondary external pump inline with existing fuel lines. No dropping the tank and you can get plenty big enough of a pump under the car without anything hanging down. I think mine is a bosch. From hahn performance. http://www.turbosystem.com/ Then replace stock fuel lines if you go back to stock. Well, I bought all new stuff from the factory back when parts where available when I did this. In 1992 you could order new anything for a TTA. Yes, I'm an old man.