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On Going No Start Problem

J

jeffc89

Active Member
Ok here we go again. Still working on the no start problem once the car gets hot. When the car cranks the noid light for the injectors is very weak. If it does finaly hit off it will get stronger. We do have one issue that we found of only 5.1 volts from the igntion modular to the cam sensor which the book indicates 6-9 volts. Not sure if that is messing up the computer on hot start up. If the car is shot with starting fluid it will start every time. No codes are showing up. Has anyone ran into this problem before? We have replaced the coolant sensor, MAF, cam sensor and crank sensor. Next thing we can do is shot and put it to rest. And yes the car has 1600 miles on it. Any help would be great.

Thanks
Jeff
 
Sounds like your starter is getting heat :devil: soaked.

My car would start fine cold, then once it got to temp and then I'd pull in and get gas or something when I went to start it up it wouldn't turn. Like a 5 - 10 minute wait then it would start up. Got a new starter, been fine for the last 15 years. Good luck with tracking your gremlin down.
 
try a new crank sensor, that helped me when I had this problem. It is 40 bucks and 5 min to put in. Worth a shot as it is pretty easy.
 
I'm not sure if it was mentioned befor but I would clean all the ground points on the motor as well as the power distrabution at the starter. as these cars get older some corosion can cause low voltage readings. May not be your problem but sure can't hurt.
 
We did all the grounds back in the spring. I think we may have found the problem. It looks like it was the ignition mod. Just put a new one on and the car is up to temp and starting every time. Keeping my fingers crossed.
 
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O K Scrap that idea. Car wont start hot. Looses grond to the injectors once hot. Hit it with starting fluid and car will start and run. Any ideas?
 
What is going on with the car and how do you get it started when its hot? I had a GM mechanic and a Rep from GM work on the car for 2 days. Test after test. Ended up that the fuel was loosing its kick from being so old. They took the car for a drive and added fresh fuel. So far so good. How many miles are on the car and how often is it driven? I can tell you what we tested to save you a lot of time.

Jeff
 
i think i have mine fixed, new injectors, chip and computer. seems to run good for now. Before i would spary starting fluid into it and it would run fine, It has been sitting for a while, i just bought it. tom
 
I also have a low mile car that has been doing the same thing since I got it five years ago. My car also sits for long periods but will start and run but will occasionally not start when hot. Has pressure to the rail and will crank like crazy but no fire. I have never tried to ether it to get it to start. I had the fuel pump crap out last summer so I replaced that.Took the car out last night for the first time this summer made it to the gas station but after fueling it wouldn't start. Checked fuses unplugged the fusable link for a while then the thing fired and ran fine. Started multiple times after getting home. Problem is that it doesn't do it regularly enough to predict so I can be ready to test parts and I don't want to rack up a bunch of miles trying to break down. I put injectors a chip and a filter on the car when I got it and when it starts it runs well.
 
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Had the car not start last friday night, it ran fine for a week, i installed a new computer chip, drove it to the car wash and washed it, after i washed it no start. It would not start all fri night without either. I did try taking a piece of wire from the alt to the hot of the injectors and it would fire everytime. I have since that night not had any trouble out of it, i went through all of the grounds, installed a groung stretcher and cleaned all the termnals. I drove it about 300 miles yesterday to the bpg event in hebron oh.
 
Sounds like same symptoms that I have. I'm not sure what would keep the injectors from getting pulse. I read that the VATS system on these cars disable the starter not the injectors.I don't know if that is true but I think Razor posted that. I changed the vats module on my car when I first started having trouble but no help. Does either start your car every time and then it runs once fired off the either?
 
yes, either would start the car and it would stay running till you shut it off. The vats only disables the starter. I waas using a noid light on the injector to make sure it was pulsin g at start up. The light was very weak untill it started, than it got real bright. That s why i cleaned and redid all my grounds.
 
Not entirely true, the VATS system also disables the ECM's fuel input enable by not providing the square wave signal.

If your truly thinking it's a VATS problem and you've replaced the VATS module then the lock cylinder itself is more than likely the problem.
 
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Not to sound smart but what's the chances that the key cylinder has broken at 600 miles? I did check the keys on a known cylinder and they ohm the same.
 
Just thinking back to the last time I dug into the service manual I think that the oil pressure switch will send power to the fuel pump relay at 4 psi causing the car to continue to run if the fuel pump relay fails. This would most likely happen if you start the car on either. I don't understand if the key cylinder is bad, why it only fails every once in a while. What other factors would cause the injectors not to be powered?
 
WS6 said:
Not entirely true, the VATS system also disables the ECM's fuel input enable by not providing the square wave signal.

If your truly thinking it's a VATS problem and you've replaced the VATS module then the lock cylinder itself is more than likely the problem.
Click to expand...

I don't think so, but could be wrong, I remember asking one of the chip makers about this many years ago and he told me the buick ECM we use do not support this so it's only for the standard birds not the TTA but as I said I could be wrong.
 
I can't speak to the Buick ECM as being different,but I would be very surprised if for all the car lines that that particular ECM is used for,which also used VATS, would not support a fuel cut off deterrent layered on top of the starter enable relay defeat.
I have always asked for a VATS disable when I had a chip made, but maybe Jan is right and Eric ignored that request because it doesn't matter in this ECM.


The pellet in the key does occasionally change in it's ohm[ic] value,but rarely.A big issue is the 2 tiny,tiny wires that feed down the column. The wire inside will develop a break of the wire and not the insulation and cause sporatic start,no start condition.

A good way to check is to watch the security light to see if it flashes after a no start. That will indicate a VATS failure. If it does the ECM will begin a 3 minute timer before it allows another attempt to verify the correct VATS key is being used.
 
This must be a low mileage car issue. I have only 3500 miles on #848, and I am having the same problems. Did anybody on this post solve the mystery yet??????
 
Yeh and you probably wont believe this. How old is the fuel? My mechanic and a GM rep worked on the car for hours. Tested everything under the hood. Flushed the system with new gas and car worked like a champ. The GM rep said the fuel will looses its kick over time. Motor is cold more fuel is pumped in at crank time. Hotter the motor less fuel that is needed to fire off. Older the fuel gets the less kick it has when the motor is hot. My car has 1600 miles on it so the fuel in the lines and tank was very yellow in color and stunk. Hope this helps. And yes it drove me nuts for weeks. I bet the car will start with a little shot of starting fluid. Mine did every time.

Jeff
 
Hi Jeff! Thank you for the response. I don't know how old the fuel was, but I bet it was old. I filled it up with 93 when it dropped by the truck. I guess I need to drain it and flush it. If I recall your car would turn over when hot but wouldn't fire? That's what happens to mine, plus it is running kind of rough, this is the problem with museum trailer queens. I plan on driving this thing when I figure it out. I have also heard that all this ethanol in our fuels now is also a problem, have you heard anything about ethanol problems too?
 
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