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Failed Emissions

These guys in your link are comparing a tank of straight gasoline to E85 as run in a flex fuel vehicle. Doesn't really apply to adding "some" alcohol to a tank of gasoline in an old car without special tuning like we are talking about. A better place to find information on what we are discussing would most likely appear in a car enthusisast magazine.

Also, understand that NREL is a biased source in favor of the "government's" bias to put us all on alternative fuels -regardless of whether they are better or not. The original mission of DoE was to get us off of oil - which is a pretty dumb objective since fossil fuel holistically works best. But who would expect brilliance from Jimmy Carter? I worked with NREL/DoE in my last job professionally. I assure you that they aren't going to publish anything that portrays alternative fuels in an inferior light to make the "government approved solution" look bad. They don't get program money for saying that gasoline is fine and works great. There's the bias...

Since our objective here is to "work around" government emission standards to make our cars pass emission tests by adding "some" alcohol, official government sources are probably not going to be very helpful.

I knew this would be your point of contention before I even posted the information, based off of your prior comments.

So what if they're comparing gasoline to E85? The point was to show that emissions would be lower by adding "some" alcohol.

There's the information. Do with it as you wish. If you don't believe alcohol emits fewer emissions......so be it.

If they "made up" the information - there isn't much I can do about that. I'm sure every test known to man has the potential to be massaged and stroked to get more favorable results.

Good day. :)
 
A TTA cannot broadly adapt it's fueling based on broad analysis of the mix of fuel that you put in there like a Flex Fuel Vehicle does. Therefore the NREL article is not related to the topic here. You have to understand stoichiometry. Different fuels optimize their burn at different A/F ratios. Consider that most pump gasoline already has 10% alcohol in it. TTA engines were not engineered to work with E10. So if alcohol leans out gasoline as you say, then automatically a TTA engine will be incorrectly fueled too lean. Now if you dump more alcohol in there, you're asking the TTA computer (and narrow band O2 sensor) to compensate/work with an even leaner fuel mixture. Note that catalytic converters only work their best when the A/F mix is 14.7. If you goof that up with "some" alcohol and make it 15.0 to 1.0, the cat won't work nearly as well, raising HC and NOX. If you're really interested in a reader's digest of this, read Chapter 2 of Greg Banish's book called "Engine Management - Advanced Tuning". From what I know, I believe that it would be smarter to keep the alcohol out of there and maybe even richen things a little bit if possible to compensate for the E10.
 
Again, NREL got lower emissions with alcohol in a flex fuel vehicle that was designed with a control sytem to take advantage of it. It analyzes the fuel on the fly and makes adjustments. There is no such capability in a TTA.

Next thing you know somebody will claim that adding water to a gas tank will lower emissions. I guess it would because the engine wouldn't be running any more.
 
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