How to improve the 60' ?

[WS6]

I have DR's and one night I get traction and the next night I spin all the way through 1st and then some.

I can't get my 60' times down. I'm consistent with 2.1 despite traction differences,I've run 20PSI and 15PSI in the tires.

Is there a secret to launching the TTA's? on footbrake I'm at 2900rpm + or - and that's at 3.5-4.5 of boost before I push through the brakes.

I tried the footbrake and E-brake thing but it appears I'm not coordinated enough to remember to LET OFF THE E-BRAKE! and rode that mother out to about the 100' mark....nice huh.
:rofl:
any suggestions??


..

 

[Turbota6]

I used to use a technique that the Sy/Ty guys use. Since vacuum is the opposite of boost, and the TTA has vacuum assisted brakes, try this.

1. Pre-stage, just 1st stage light lit.
2. Put the car in N and rev while pushing down on the brake. This should build vacuum and allow greater holding power.
3. Wait for the revs to come down and shift back to your gear of choice (I usually used D or 3rd, too much wheel hop in 1st).
4. Easily creep the car forward to light the second stage bulb. You should be able to hold it at the line a little better now without using the E-brake.
5. Load it up and wait for the lights to come down!

I pulled a 1.82 best 60' time with this technique although I will say it was a very good track (Rt. 66) and the tires I was using were possibly retreads. Mods at the time were minimal...K&N, chip, & adj. wastegate.

HTH :cheers:

 

[Quiky One]

I run ET Streets at 10-12 PSI. Nice smoky burnout (usually smoke in the car :bomb

No ebrake, no putting it in neutral, no trans brake. Foot to the floor and build boost until it starts to creep then I floor one and let off the other.

I have noticed that my new PTC converter has lowered my 60's .1-.2 on the same combo and tires. This new converter is WICKED. Spools just as fast as a Solstice GXP which has the turbo the size of my fist.

 

[Quiky One]

My best 60' ever has been 1.62. Most of them are low 1.7's.

 

[Turbota6]

BTW, my aforementioned technique might get you some strange looks at the track. It seems like the officials would always be waving me to pull up to full stage like I didn't know what I was doing. Just give 'em a thumbs up :thumbup: , and not some other digit, and procede at your own pace.

 

[RatFink]

I completely ignore the track officials and their waving shit. I paid my money and since it's always so crowded I make sure not to blow my opportunity when getting set-up because of some monkey waving me on. Also, just because the light is green doesn't mean the timer starts, it clicks off when your tires no longer are in the staging beam. So I'll sit there regardless of wether or not a ricer blows me away. I'll make sure the car is about to push through the staging lights before I let the break go. I'm more into beating my last time than the dude in the other lane or getting a record reaction time.

 

[WS6]

As suggested I haven't been in a hurry yet to get the clock started,truth be told I'm looking at the tach-boostgauge- scanmaster and staging light when I happen to notice the other fella has left. As Ratfink told me I'll be faster than 70% of the guys there,which has been true so far. I have run down everyone by the 1/8 anyway...except that vette that was on the benificial side of my glorious E-brake experiment!:wheelchair:

BTW, I went 12.6 at a pube under 109MPH.

I need to do some work....:blink:

 

[Quiky One]

As suggested I haven't been in a hurry yet to get the clock started,truth be told I'm looking at the tach-boostgauge- scanmaster and staging light when I happen to notice the other fella has left. As Ratfink told me I'll be faster than 70% of the guys there,which has been true so far. I have run down everyone by the 1/8 anyway...except that vette that was on the benificial side of my glorious E-brake experiment!:wheelchair:

BTW, I went 12.6 at a pube under 109MPH.

I need to do some work....:blink:

Whats the tune look like?

 

[WS6]

Whats the tune look like?

Right now, it's right on 128 BLM's off the line up until 13 PSI, then it's a wee bit fat (118-121) until 20 PSI then it goes a wee bit lean at the top of third,like 134-140 ish BLMs.

The WB targeting is doing it's job and staying pretty damn tight to 10.8 all the way through.

Alky is set at 7

And I've never gotten rid of the .8 through 3.5 KR that shows up in the mid boost to 18psi area....so it's pulling some timing there.

I can never hear it detonating and it does just pop up big, like 2.4 then falls off...only over and over again. About 3 times a run.

I do have some fuel PSI numbers that bounce around as much as 5 PSI at full boost. So at 21 PSI of boost I'll have 65psi of FP then 2 frames later 61 then 63 then 58 and so on.

thoughts?

 

[Quiky One]

Right now, it's right on 128 BLM's off the line up until 13 PSI, then it's a wee bit fat (118-121) until 20 PSI then it goes a wee bit lean at the top of third,like 134-140 ish BLMs.

The WB targeting is doing it's job and staying pretty damn tight to 10.8 all the way through.

Alky is set at 7

And I've never gotten rid of the .8 through 3.5 KR that shows up in the mid boost to 18psi area....so it's pulling some timing there.

I can never hear it detonating and it does just pop up big, like 2.4 then falls off...only over and over again. About 3 times a run.

I do have some fuel PSI numbers that bounce around as much as 5 PSI at full boost. So at 21 PSI of boost I'll have 65psi of FP then 2 frames later 61 then 63 then 58 and so on.

thoughts?

In all honesty, all I tune with is knock and somewhat with o2's.

In your case, BLM's do indicate something to me. You ran 12.6 @ 110 with your alky knob at 7. I ran 11.1x at 125 with my alky knob at 7. Your BLM's are rising because the higher the boost the more alky you are spraying. Thus it is detracting fuel and causing BLM's to rise. If your BLM's are at 128 +- 5 at idle do not look at them anymore.

Are you truly pulling timing or is it just registering knock? A lot of the times you get knock, but it doesn't pull timing. Look at your advanced graph. I bet it didn't pull any. :cheers:

I don't understand the knock situation. WOT do you get any knock? Is it false or is it real? Easily read by the graph. Post it up!

Fuel pressure...I don't even know what mine does at WOT but it sounds like your pump is going bad. Probably not causing any issues at the moment but will be catastrophic later...

Post your graph!

 

[Quiky One]

Here are two runs. Let me know if you see anything that alarms you or you see weird. I'll explain why it reads that way if you see anything. I'd love to have 3 passes with your car. I bet I could get it running pretty spot on. :detective:

 

[WS6]

In your case, BLM's do indicate something to me. You ran 12.6 @ 110 with your alky knob at 7. I ran 11.1x at 125 with my alky knob at 7. Your BLM's are rising because the higher the boost the more alky you are spraying. Thus it is detracting fuel and causing BLM's to rise. If your BLM's are at 128 +- 5 at idle do not look at them anymore.

I agree...my fueling is being skewed by the methanol, but Julio wants me to spray at 7 or 8. If I'm at default settings and spraying alky at 7? my top of 3rd BLM's are bottomed out at 115 all the time and NB O2s are mid 840s

Are you truly pulling timing or is it just registering knock? A lot of the times you get knock, but it doesn't pull timing. Look at your advanced graph. I bet it didn't pull any.

I'm not sure about that, I spoke with Eric about this and unless I misunderstood what he said that the advance shown in the PL file is what is commanded by the chip based on other things and that KR requested is not subtracted from the displayed advance field. Example; if the "advance" field shows 22.9 degrees and at the same time there is -2.5 degrees in the knock retard field, then we have to subtract that and the real advance is 20.4

I don't understand the knock situation. WOT do you get any knock? Is it false or is it real?

Me neither....sometimes...small amounts .5-.8

My gut feeling is that is 75% false and 25% real(tune). I had much worse KR last summer and found a bunch of rattling sources but still had this small KR. I finally pulled the heads when I changed the cam and there was NO evidence of detonation,HG's weren't even bruised,bearings were great!


I will admit...that I'm a bit of soft peddler.Sometimes I think I'm mashing it when I'm really just at 3.85 TPS...Julio has scolded me more than once about this and says it contributes to false knock. He also had me make a bunch of logged 55mph 3rd gear pulls and probably 2 out 3 runs would have some small KR, like .1 or.8, which he says crank up the gain knob and if it's fat then trim fuel...not alky.

I agree my fuel pump is going away,for sure the internal check valve has failed. It's cranking a little bit longer now before it lights off.

BTW, last nights logs are still on the laptop,in the front seat of the car,at the shop. So I'll get them tomorrow and post up.

...

 

[Quiky One]

I agree...my fueling is being skewed by the methanol, but Julio wants me to spray at 7 or 8. If I'm at default settings and spraying alky at 7? my top of 3rd BLM's are bottomed out at 115 all the time and NB O2s are mid 840s



I'm not sure about that, I spoke with Eric about this and unless I misunderstood what he said that the advance shown in the PL file is what is commanded by the chip based on other things and that KR requested is not subtracted from the displayed advance field. Example; if the "advance" field shows 22.9 degrees and at the same time there is -2.5 degrees in the knock retard field, then we have to subtract that and the real advance is 20.4



Me neither....sometimes...small amounts .5-.8

My gut feeling is that is 75% false and 25% real(tune). I had much worse KR last summer and found a bunch of rattling sources but still had this small KR. I finally pulled the heads when I changed the cam and there was NO evidence of detonation,HG's weren't even bruised,bearings were great!


I will admit...that I'm a bit of soft peddler.Sometimes I think I'm mashing it when I'm really just at 3.85 TPS...Julio has scolded me more than once about this and says it contributes to false knock. He also had me make a bunch of logged 55mph 3rd gear pulls and probably 2 out 3 runs would have some small KR, like .1 or.8, which he says crank up the gain knob and if it's fat then trim fuel...not alky.

I agree my fuel pump is going away,for sure the internal check valve has failed. It's cranking a little bit longer now before it lights off.

BTW, last nights logs are still on the laptop,in the front seat of the car,at the shop. So I'll get them tomorrow and post up.

...

If Julio says something, then do it! He knows 2156415614% more than I do.

Let me see the log and I will make more opinions off of that. Does your logger show 02's or just WB02?

Put the pedal to the floor! I mash that sucker! You can't tune at 3/4 throttle!

I'll have to see the log to see what your fuel trims are at. I'll be on tomorrow so post as soon as you can!

 

[WS6]

Here are two runs. Let me know if you see anything that alarms you or you see weird. I'll explain why it reads that way if you see anything. I'd love to have 3 passes with your car. I bet I could get it running pretty spot on. :detective:

I'm jealous(dat4)...leaving at 4000rpm and 16.5psi.:drool: I don't see anything wierd...a couple blips of KR.

But I think on the BLM issue the 6.0 chip is different. The 5.6 locks the BLM's and toggles around closed and open loop WOT whereas the 6.0 is closed loop WB targeting and therefore the chip moves around cells of BLMs to meet 10.8 A/F's ....right?


I'd love for you to have my car for 3 runs and free up the rest of my summer...drive up here and tow it home for a couple weeks!!

 

[Quiky One]

I'm jealous(dat4)...leaving at 4000rpm and 16.5psi.:drool: I don't see anything wierd...a couple blips of KR.

But I think on the BLM issue the 6.0 chip is different. The 5.6 locks the BLM's and toggles around closed and open loop WOT whereas the 6.0 is closed loop WB targeting and therefore the chip moves around cells of BLMs to meet 10.8 A/F's ....right?


I'd love for you to have my car for 3 runs and free up the rest of my summer...drive up here and tow it home for a couple weeks!!

I'm not leaving that high. My MPH is delayed. I'm leaving at 4-5 and then it spools almost instantly. That's why it seems so high. :cheers:

That is the difference in a quality converter!

 

[Quiky One]

But I think on the BLM issue the 6.0 chip is different. The 5.6 locks the BLM's and toggles around closed and open loop WOT whereas the 6.0 is closed loop WB targeting and therefore the chip moves around cells of BLMs to meet 10.8 A/F's ....right?


I'd love for you to have my car for 3 runs and free up the rest of my summer...drive up here and tow it home for a couple weeks!!

You are right on with the BLM and WB02 issue. Lemme see your logs before you adjust the target A/F. Don't want to go too lean and have sky high EGT's.

Come out to Ohio next summer. Jim is from Philly so caravan out with him! I'll get it tuned there. Hopefully by that point, fine tuned!

These cars are easy once you fool around enough. I am lucky because before I could drive I was reading. So I didn't break stuff and find out. I always read about people breaking stuff. Now I have real life experience with them...perfect combo. Don't get me wrong, I've done plenty of "why the hell did I just do that" stuff.

Jason