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How to Launch the TTA

K

Kman1971

Well-Known Member
It sounds like everyone is getting their cars out and ready for the show and race season and I was just looking for some expert advise on how to Launch these Bad Birds.

The original one I had back in 89, I would put the car in drive vs overdrive and just put my left foot on the brake and right foot on the gas, give it just enough gas get the tires to break and let go of the brake on launch and give it alot of gas on start.

I was practicing launching this weekend on both cars. Here is how both cars are set up.

#613/BADCARR is is mainly stock with 60lb injectors, Turbo Tweak Chip, Scanmaster, Walbro 340 Fuel pump and hotwire kit, Cold Air intake, and borla exhaust.

#1040/RAYDER is heavily modified, 60 lb injectors, Ben Bailey Chip, Scanmaster, T63 Turbo, 3" downpipe, front mounted intercooler, adjustable wastegate set at 24LB boost, Wide band maft gen II, Alky Kit, Straight Pipes Exhaust, larger cam, Art Carr torque converter, Wildwood Big Brake kit and a 9" ford rear end.

#613 launches like I remember from my original TTA. The wheels crack and spin while stopped and then just explodes off the line when I launch. AWESOME. When you launch are you supposed to go wide open throttle/peddle to the floor or just give it controlled throttle? My 9 year old daughter was with me on this one and she just loved every minute of it.

#1040 is a whole different animal and this is what I need some advice on how to launch. The larger turbo takes longer to spool up, and when I am giving it gas and have my foot on the brake, the wheels don't break at all, then when I launch it let the brake go, it takes off, but is seems slower than #613 as the larger turbo is spooling up, but once it gets into the 20+ boost it is really hauling. Am I launching this one right, do I need to give it more gas, should the tires break at all? I am just learning or trying to get a better understanding of this, but #1040 drives just completely different than #613. It revs higher in each gear and drops down in gear with just a mash of the gas, kind of like driving in Drive vs overdrive all the time but even more extreme. Is this because of the Art Carr converter?

Just enjoying the cars and learning more about them and can't wait to practice some more, just looking for some advice on the proper technique so I don't brake anything. And this is the best place with people that know how to get the most out of these awesome birds. Plus it will help all the new members that just bought their TTA's and learning how to enjoy them too.

Thanks for the advice in advance.

:burnrubber:
 
I like launching with a trans brake, can. Yield as much boost as you want even with a bigger turbo. Also some ppl pull the enrake up to help hold the wheels while building boost. I have never tried that though.
 
Thanks Jarred,

No emergency brake on Rayder, the heavily modified one. It must of been removed with the brake upgrade and the lever is just loose, well it is locked in the down position but if you try to engage it, you can feel that is just free when you pull it up and there is no engagement of a brake. I am wondering if Rayder has a trans brake on it. There is a toggle switch run into the center console where the little light was. I didn't know what it was, and it is disconnected now. Could that be a trans brake, or are they typically installed another way? Again, this is all new to me.

Here is how Wikipedia defines a trans brake: a transbrake is a mechanism that selectively places the transmission in first and reverse gears simultaneously, effectively holding the race car stationary as if the foot brake was applied. The transbrake is activated by the driver by applying electrical current to a solenoid at the transmission. With the transbrake engaged (transmission locked), the engine throttle can be increased to any position (opening) in preparation for launch without the race driver worrying about the car creeping forward. Milliseconds before the green light illuminates on the Tree the transbrake is released (by the driver releasing an electrical switch or by a delay box "timing out" originally triggered by the driver releasing an electrical switch) and the car launches forward, its engine already in the higher power band and the transmission already in low gear.
 
It's all about the combo, find out what the stall is for #1040. it sounds like they knew what they were doing but i would not assume anything. converter dont match turbo , not good. any head porting? cam size?
 
in non trans brake turbo cars ... When i light the second buld i put it in neutral rev it up acouple times while mashing the brakes u can feel the pedal go a lil futher to the floor. Put it bad in D spool up as much as u can an let it rip
 
Thanks Rob,

I'll have to ask my mechanic. After he tuned it up, he recommended going to a smaller turbo, said it would spool faster and also recommended installing a larger radiator, since it seems to run a little hot. I agree it did not match, the car ran like crap when I bought it, that is why I got it so cheap.

The stall is a Art Carr TH-200 4R valve body kit. It was about the only piece of paper work that came with the car, found the installation manual under the passenger seat.
 
the stall is the t.converter, if it is the stock t.c that would explain the slow spool and IF thats the case you will need to change turbo (easier) or t.c to a higher stall (3200)
 
According to the turbo comparisons list here, the 3200 stall is about right for your turbo. Some of the smaller turbos, like stock have the smaller .63 garrett exaust housing and they really spool up fast. And can use a stock torque convertor. The T63 you have probably has the larger exaust housing. And higher stall speed convertor is needed like a 3200 stall.

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/pictureguides/turboguide/turbos.html
 
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TTA984 said:
According to the turbo comparisons list here, the 3200 stall is about right for your turbo. Some of the smaller turbos, like stock have the smaller .63 garrett exaust housing and they really spool up fast. And can use a stock torque convertor. The T63 you have probably has the larger exaust housing. And higher stall speed convertor is needed like a 3200 stall.

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/pictureguides/turboguide/turbos.html
Click to expand...
Mike is right on, but, we can speculate from now till the second coming of Christ the what if's, only when you know for sure what you have will you get a answer that is right, or as Jan would say, "spot on mate" :thumbup:
 
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Also a note on the T63 turbo:

They benefit from a 9" high stall converter and need plenty of fuel and head work to make them work to the best advantage. These are best left to mid 10 and quicker cars with pretty heavy modifications.
Advantages: These turbos offer greater performance at the top end. They really make power when it comes up on boost, but they will add a certain amount of lag on the bottom end without some sort of 9" converter. They provide a basis for performance well into the low 10s.
Disadvantages: Definitely contribute to turbo lag. Needs a converter to really make them work.
 
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TTA984 said:
Also a note on the T63 turbo:

They benefit from a 9" high stall converter and need plenty of fuel and head work to make them work to the best advantage. These are best left to mid 10 and quicker cars with pretty heavy modifications.
Advantages: These turbos offer greater performance at the top end. They really make power when it comes up on boost, but they will add a certain amount of lag on the bottom end without some sort of 9" converter. They provide a basis for performance well into the low 10s.
Disadvantages: Definitely contribute to turbo lag. Needs a converter to really make them work.
Click to expand...
Mike is right on again , he's really been doing the homework, K-man if you decide to sell it pm me , might be interested
 
Thanks guys for the the awesome feedback. I will talk to my mechanic again and see what he recommends. The car is more for driving and cruising, not a track car, and my mechanic knew that so he already recommended going to a smaller turbo for better spooling. Something just doesn't feel right about it and it is the lag compared to the stock one.
 
i only got a 1.55 on short 26 inchtall tire 275/50/15 using my method but what do i know toted the left front tire stock long block TE-60 3200 art carr converter. Drove it it to nc an back on mt radials 23mpg

Picture-518.jpg
 
Just getting a better understanding of what a torque converter does. I found this website and breaks it down pretty simple.
What does a high stall converter do?

The last paragraph sums it up and why I feel my heavily modded car feels like such a turd off the line...Most street performance cars running your typical "performance" cam should be running a stall converter in the 2,800 RPM area. For hotter cars (street / strip) with bigger cams, etc. then a converter in the 3,000 - 3,200 RPM is more suited. For mild performance cars with something like a 350 HP engine, a 2,400 stall is about right. The basic rule of thumb is; if your engine "comes alive" at say, 3,500 RPM, then you want a stall converter with about 3,500 of stall to it. Most people tend to over cam and over carburete their cars... and those same people tend to under stall converter their cars too, which REALLY makes it a complete turd. if they need a 3,000 RPM stall, they'll usually get something like a 2,000 RPM, which just doesn't get it off the line. You have to remember... 80% of the race is the first 100 feet. If you can't get off the line, you are going to lose the race.

So it sounds like a need a 3200 stall or torque converter to get it to launch at the right power or spool of the turbo or I need to put a smaller turbo on so it can spool easier and launch at a lower stall. Does that about sum it up?

With all this said, and the car will be a street car and not a track car, which is better to change to get it running better.... a new 3200 stall or a smaller turbo and any idea of cost and how long either one would take? If I change either of these, will I need to have a new chip burned?
 
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Kman1971 said:
Just getting a better understanding of what a torque converter does. I found this website and breaks it down pretty simple.
What does a high stall converter do?

The last paragraph sums it up and why I fee my heavily modded car feels like such a turd off the line...Most street performance cars running your typical "performance" cam should be running a stall converter in the 2,800 RPM area. For hotter cars (street / strip) with bigger cams, etc. then a converter in the 3,000 - 3,200 RPM is more suited. For mild performance cars with something like a 350 HP engine, a 2,400 stall is about right. The basic rule of thumb is; if your engine "comes alive" at say, 3,500 RPM, then you want a stall converter with about 3,500 of stall to it. Most people tend to over cam and over carburete their cars... and those same people tend to under stall converter their cars too, which REALLY makes it a complete turd. if they need a 3,000 RPM stall, they'll usually get something like a 2,000 RPM, which just doesn't get it off the line. You have to remember... 80% of the race is the first 100 feet. If you can't get off the line, you are going to lose the race.

So it sounds like a need a 3200 stall or torque converter to get it to launch at the right power or spool of the turbo or I need to put a smaller turbo on so it can spool easier and launch at a lower stall. Does that about sum it up?
Click to expand...
you got it , but still don't know , you may have a 3200 stall already, make sense?
 
the turbo conveter have alot to do with the 60ft put a cam in it an it will effect both ... nevermind me im just thowing out bs all my cars are slow
 
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tta299 said:
i only got a 1.55 on short 26 inchtall tire 275/50/15 using my method but what do i know toted the left front tire stock long block TE-60 3200 art carr converter. Drove it it to nc an back on mt radials 23mpg

Picture-518.jpg
Click to expand...
Was that with your TTA or GN? diffrent heads
 
robert lee said:
It's all about the combo, find out what the stall is for #1040. it sounds like they knew what they were doing but i would not assume anything. converter dont match turbo , not good. any head porting? cam size?
Click to expand...

The head porting and cam size were done prior to me getting the car and that info was not available.

How can you tell if the heads were ported or the cam size, or would that involve a mechanic looking at it in depth?
 
robert lee said:
Was that with your TTA or GN? diffrent heads
Click to expand...

87 GN 3,700lbs stock long block with TE-60 not raced the tta yet ...... it will run when i get a tune im building a house right now tta is back burner hard to get 1.2 million out your pocket
im only 31 so i think im doing good house is 80 percent done ...... im going to try the unthinkable 9 sec tta i will up date yall when i make a pass
 
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Kman1971 said:
The head porting and cam size were done prior to me getting the car and that info was not available.

How can you tell if the heads were ported or the cam size, or would that involve a mechanic looking at it in depth?
Click to expand...
No way to know without pulling the heads, the big thing is the T.C , i think you can measure bolt to bolt at the fly-wheel to see what size it is but still need some #'s for the stall. honestly unless you want a 10-sec strip car just get a T-e44 or a 49 and i think you will be happy as they will work no matter what set-up you have and you can still sell the one you have...
 
tta299 said:
87 GN 3,700lbs stock long block with TE-60 not raced the tta yet ...... it will run when i get a tune im building a house right now tta is back burner hard to get 1.2 million out your pocket
im only 31 so i think im doing good house is 80 percent done ...... im going to try the unthinkable 9 sec tta i will up date yall when i make a pass
Click to expand...
Only 1.2 mil ? :blink: no problem, when you get it built start a fire and i will come up with a pig on a stick ;) what part of S.C ? got to have directions :D
 
robert lee said:
No way to know without pulling the heads, the big thing is the T.C , i think you can measure bolt to bolt at the fly-wheel to see what size it is but still need some #'s for the stall. honestly unless you want a 10-sec strip car just get a T-e44 or a 49 and i think you will be happy as they will work no matter what set-up you have and you can still sell the one you have...
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good plan. Thanks for the advice. I will let you know when the 63 is off and available.

How difficult is it to change the turbo? Can a novice do it? Is it just bolts or more complicated and a mechanic should do it.
 
Kman1971 said:
Sounds like a good plan. Thanks for the advice. I will let you know when the 63 is off and available.

How difficult is it to change the turbo? Can a novice do it? Is it just bolts or more complicated and a mechanic should do it.
Click to expand...
YOU can do it ... just break out the bolt-blaster not hard at all
 
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