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what's the deal with the TA49

WS6

WS6

Stay thirsty my friends
So reading some of the magazine articles Jared posted up (thanks for those BTW) I finally was able to put a name to the factory installed turbo, a Garrett T2.5

Which got me to thinking about what turbo I'd like to grow into if things progress for my car as planned. The previous owner had a TA49 on and while casually looking for the same thing, I've run across dozens of threads at TB.com from people looking for the same turbo.

So, what's the deal with them? Seems they are of an earlier generation of turbos and that the TE44 is first cousin of the TA49, is that true??
Is it that they are close in fit to the factory T2.5, or are they that much better than the T2.5. Or! is that they seem to be a relatively inexpensive upgrade turbo to buy.

:eam:
 
What converter do you have?

A TA49 flows just a tad less than the TE44. The main difference is the TA looks stock and the TE looks non stock.

Jason
 
Quiky One said:
What converter do you have?

A TA49 flows just a tad less than the TE44. The main difference is the TA looks stock and the TE looks non stock.

Jason
Click to expand...

Alledgedly? An Art carr 9" at about 3200 stall.

Am I barking up the wrong turbo?:rofl: When I do this, after the TT chip and injector change,I'll be looking to spend $700- 800 or so.



..
 
WS6 said:
Alledgedly? An Art carr 9" at about 3200 stall.

Am I barking up the wrong turbo?:rofl: When I do this, after the TT chip and injector change,I'll be looking to spend $700- 800 or so.



..
Click to expand...
Here is the way to test the stall. Shove your brake pedal to the floor and hit the gas. When the boost and vacuum are both zero that is your stall speed.

If you have a 3200 get a 61....
 
Look into ball bearing technology. You can get a little bigger turbo in ball bearing version and go a little bigger on the compressor side. I'd stay 63.AR on the exhaust side (stock is .63 exhaust side) 83 is available and will fit stock application but is too big for street IMO. Talk to Jack Cotton. http://www.cottonsperformance.com/
My 61 spools like the TE44 I had last year. I have a Jasper's Stall Conv. that stalls around 2900, and the 61 spools fast enough to spin the MT drag radials.
You may be able to go 60#inj, and a 67mm turbo. Either run acly at 25psi or heated 02 sensor and 116 Race gas and go 25psi. That would rock IMO!. If I had to do over, I would have went more stall convertor and bigger turbo. But I went conservative with the 2900 stall and Te44, when I should have went 3200 stall 67 mm. I have to say the 44 was a great turbo for street. Alone, the Terrry Houston DP and the Te44 made my car go from 12.90 to 12.11 with no tuning. And that's consistant numbers. the TA-49 (sock Looking) and TE-44 are tried and true great turbos and usually up for sale on message boards and e-bay often for around $450 to $600. I sold my low mile 44 for $580 last fall.:cool1:
 
All good advice, but I need to correct one of my statements. Seems the factory Garrett is a T3 not a T2.5. Not that has anything to do with my question.

But while we're chatting I need to learn a little about turbo speak. What is the "AR" you were talking about and the "mm" size of the turbo in reference too?
 
AR is the exhaust side size. .63 is stock and works the best for a street car. .83 is the next size up that will fit the 3 bolt stock exhaust. From my own experience back in 1991 I had a "cheetah" it was a T04 style compressor housing kinda like I have now. This is a non stock looking compressor housing similiar to the TE44. Anyway, it had .83 exhaust side, it took forever to spool up. Was a disaster. Terrible performance. Technology has improved a bit since then. MM is millimeter, I could be wrong here, I'm thinking that this is the measurment of the compressot wheel itself.
Lots of good info at the below links:
http://www.turboneticsownersclub.com/

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/technology/index.php?section=56

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbo-s-turbo-related-parts/
 
sverble said:
Look into ball bearing technology. You can get a little bigger turbo in ball bearing version and go a little bigger on the compressor side. I'd stay 63.AR on the exhaust side (stock is .63 exhaust side) 83 is available and will fit stock application but is too big for street IMO. Talk to Jack Cotton. http://www.cottonsperformance.com/
My 61 spools like the TE44 I had last year. I have a Jasper's Stall Conv. that stalls around 2900, and the 61 spools fast enough to spin the MT drag radials.
You may be able to go 60#inj, and a 67mm turbo. Either run acly at 25psi or heated 02 sensor and 116 Race gas and go 25psi. That would rock IMO!. If I had to do over, I would have went more stall convertor and bigger turbo. But I went conservative with the 2900 stall and Te44, when I should have went 3200 stall 67 mm. I have to say the 44 was a great turbo for street. Alone, the Terrry Houston DP and the Te44 made my car go from 12.90 to 12.11 with no tuning. And that's consistant numbers. the TA-49 (sock Looking) and TE-44 are tried and true great turbos and usually up for sale on message boards and e-bay often for around $450 to $600. I sold my low mile 44 for $580 last fall.:cool1:
Click to expand...



I talked to Red and he told me the ball bearing turbo do not spool any faster than the standard turbo AFTER 5 psi. Plus, you have to worry about the turbo oiling system and the water line.
 
TurboJoe89TTA said:
I talked to Red and he told me the ball bearing turbo do not spool any faster than the standard turbo AFTER 5 psi. Plus, you have to worry about the turbo oiling system and the water line.
Click to expand...
Do not know if that is true but the first 5 PSI are the most important.

What is there to worry about the oil and water line? There are kits made that bolt right up.
 
Quiky One said:
Do not know if that is true but the first 5 PSI are the most important.

What is there to worry about the oil and water line? There are kits made that bolt right up.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jason. Don't most people leave the line at 5 psi or over when racing depending on there setup? Joe
 
TurboJoe89TTA said:
Thanks Jason. Don't most people leave the line at 5 psi or over when racing depending on there setup? Joe
Click to expand...
Most people do yes. The nice thing is you can run a tight converter (2800 ish) and still spool a 67mm turbo. Good luck getting even 5PSI out of a 2800 on a regular journal bearing 67 no matter how long you sit at the line burning the transmission.
 
Quiky One said:
Most people do yes. The nice thing is you can run a tight converter (2800 ish) and still spool a 67mm turbo. Good luck getting even 5PSI out of a 2800 on a regular journal bearing 67 no matter how long you sit at the line burning the transmission.
Click to expand...


No shit there, Like I said above, I had a whopper back in 91 with a stock convertor, and it was such a dog it was unbelievable. I would have realistically needed a 4000 stall to make that thing run, probably head work..internals on and on. live and learn, or I should say $pend and learn.

Water Kits are made for prescision turbos, not for Turbonetics as of yet.
I eventually found the stuff to plumb it with at local shops. Not real hard to do. You can use the existing oil return line, you only need a slightly longer feed line, which is also easy to install and available from many vendors. Also, Jack Cotton says that you don't have to hook the water lines up if you don't want to. Some extreme applications may benefit more than my more streetable set-up.

I don't know what turbo red is running or his last combo. I know there is a buzz in Buick world and alot of salivating going on at the vendor's tents last spring over the BB turbos. If there is a buzz, usually a pretty good reason.
 
sverble said:
No shit there, Like I said above, I had a whopper back in 91 with a stock convertor, and it was such a dog it was unbelievable. I would have realistically needed a 4000 stall to make that thing run, probably head work..internals on and on. live and learn, or I should say $pend and learn.

Water Kits are made for prescision turbos, not for Turbonetics as of yet.
I eventually found the stuff to plumb it with at local shops. Not real hard to do. You can use the existing oil return line, you only need a slightly longer feed line, which is also easy to install and available from many vendors. Also, Jack Cotton says that you don't have to hook the water lines up if you don't want to. Some extreme applications may benefit more than my more streetable set-up.

I don't know what turbo red is running or his last combo. I know there is a buzz in Buick world and alot of salivating going on at the vendor's tents last spring over the BB turbos. If there is a buzz, usually a pretty good reason.
Click to expand...

I don't know if this is true so discard if it is. But I have heard that if the turbo does not use a water cooling line the turbo is not a full ball bearing unit but more of a half ball bearing unit. It makes sense in my own mind too. Cooling is only needed when extreme heat is made.

Also, grumpy on the other board went 9.96 with a Precision BB67 but only went mid 10's with the CPT66...proof? You decide. :read:
 
Quiky One said:
I don't know if this is true so discard if it is. But I have heard that if the turbo does not use a water cooling line the turbo is not a full ball bearing unit but more of a half ball bearing unit. It makes sense in my own mind too. Cooling is only needed when extreme heat is made.

Also, grumpy on the other board went 9.96 with a Precision BB67 but only went mid 10's with the CPT66...proof? You decide. :read:
Click to expand...


Turbonetics is a single BB design. Reasoning for this is at this link
http://www.turboneticsinc.com/technology/index.php?section=56
 
Quiky One said:
I don't know if this is true so discard if it is. But I have heard that if the turbo does not use a water cooling line the turbo is not a full ball bearing unit but more of a half ball bearing unit. It makes sense in my own mind too. Cooling is only needed when extreme heat is made.

Also, grumpy on the other board went 9.96 with a Precision BB67 but only went mid 10's with the CPT66...proof? You decide. :read:
Click to expand...


Sorry for bad info. I have been talking to Red a lot lately. I have the up most respect for your guys info.
 
Quiky One said:
Here is the way to test the stall. Shove your brake pedal to the floor and hit the gas. When the boost and vacuum are both zero that is your stall speed.

If you have a 3200 get a 61....
Click to expand...

I know you have been involved with performance cars and know a lot about this stuff but I'm confused at what you are getting at here. If the car has a 3200 stall converter you should be able to foot brake the car close to 3200 rpm before the tires start to spin/push you. At that point the car should be making boost (not vacuum or zero) if you have close to the right turbo for your combination. With the stock turbo, stock converter I could get 1psi of boost if I was really careful with my holeshot. Now with a 3000 stall converter I am getting about 7psi of boost with my stock turbo (hard to watch light and boost at same time so this is approx) before I start to move/spin. Usually you can't foot brake the rpms quite to the stall speed but it should be close. A trans brake would get you there but foot brake should be close enough to tell if you have a converter. The stall speed will also vary a little bit based on the torque your car is producing.

If you have some other way of checking or if I misunderstood what you were trying to say please let me know.
 
1 QUIK6 said:
I know you have been involved with performance cars and know a lot about this stuff but I'm confused at what you are getting at here. If the car has a 3200 stall converter you should be able to foot brake the car close to 3200 rpm before the tires start to spin/push you. At that point the car should be making boost (not vacuum or zero) if you have close to the right turbo for your combination. With the stock turbo, stock converter I could get 1psi of boost if I was really careful with my holeshot. Now with a 3000 stall converter I am getting about 7psi of boost with my stock turbo (hard to watch light and boost at same time so this is approx) before I start to move/spin. Usually you can't foot brake the rpms quite to the stall speed but it should be close. A trans brake would get you there but foot brake should be close enough to tell if you have a converter. The stall speed will also vary a little bit based on the torque your car is producing.

If you have some other way of checking or if I misunderstood what you were trying to say please let me know.
Click to expand...

I am not sure. I have always read (and tested) that when the car no longer can rev any higher without boost that is the stall. For instance, my truck stalls at 2k RPM's but the tires arent spinning and the truck isn't moving. I could keep the pedal to the floor forever and it wouldn't change.

With the stock TTA converter and the PT61 It would stall at 2200 and not move or boost. It would just be limited. Now with the new stall It goes up to 3400.

With a boosted application you can flash the converter which I believe is what you are seeing. After boost hits the stall speed no longer matters. A 3k stall can flash to 4k+ with enough boost pushing through.

Anyone else?
 
Quiky One said:
I am not sure. I have always read (and tested) that when the car no longer can rev any higher without boost that is the stall. For instance, my truck stalls at 2k RPM's but the tires arent spinning and the truck isn't moving. I could keep the pedal to the floor forever and it wouldn't change.

With the stock TTA converter and the PT61 It would stall at 2200 and not move or boost. It would just be limited. Now with the new stall It goes up to 3400.

With a boosted application you can flash the converter which I believe is what you are seeing. After boost hits the stall speed no longer matters. A 3k stall can flash to 4k+ with enough boost pushing through.

Anyone else?
Click to expand...

I agree with your first two paragraphs here but boost/vac shouldn't make any difference. A 3000 stall converter should never flash to 4000 rpms unless your tires are smoking or the car has launched. I suppose if you have boost (by using a smaller or more efficient turbo) it would change your engines torque which will slightly change your converters stopping point but if I am not mistaken that should actually make your stall rpm lower because it would be producing the torque at a lower rpm.

Back to origional point: WS6 footbrake it and see what rpm you can get to before the tires move. That should get you a pretty idea of what converter you have.

Hope I'm right and hope it helped!
 
This is what I've heard and been told. Anyway...The more torque the motor will produce (regardelss of being turbocharged or otherwise) the higher "stall" the convertor will allow. So, here's a scenerio same convertor advertised as a 2600 stall: if the ford motor makes 300 hp it will stall to 2600, if the buick motor makes 500 hp same convertor will stall to 2800. Again, that's 1 explaination I've been told. Though, it makes me wonder, from my own experience with a stock convertor (I think it's a 2200) stock turbo and regular Goodyear Gatorbacks the car would stall to 2200 then make about 2.5 lbs of boost, the tires would break loose. Jump to now, 2800-29 advertised stall speed convertor, bigger turbo, probably making more torque, on regular radials...car would stall to about 2800, 3.5 to 4 lbs of boost radial tires would start spinning. With the addtion of the MT DR at the strip the car will hold to 3100 and about 7lbs holding on the line. So the sticky factor of your tires will IMO raise the speed of which the convertor is holding the car. Just what I've found. I know that when I went to the 2800 stall and had the factory turbo the spool time increased from a dig or a role, seemed like the motor would rev faster spooling the turbo faster.
 
Maybe true. I have seen Razor post about flashing his converter to obtain 20+ PSI at the line.

I launched, with the stock turbo, at 2800 RPMS and about 5-6PSI. Yet with the new turbo I could not get it to start spooling.
 
Not ignoring everyone's input on the torque convertor stall, but will a TE44 fit under the factory heat shield?

There's one over at TB that is down to $550 or $525 and that's seems like a pretty good deal. Input???

EDIT. BTW, I have a TT chip and 50lb injectors sitting on the shelf, so they are not far behind.

...
 
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